Question for successful veterans: portion control?

[Dutchie]

Tinman!
I hoped to hear from you.
I did a lot of reading here, so I know that you and Ann are at opposite sides of the same spectre, what makes it even more interesting.
I am currently en route from Casablanca to Marrakech and internet is ... emmm... not so good.
I want to read more in detail, what you wrote, and I'll come back on that.
I think your point of view is very interesting and I do have some questions about it.

[AnnieG]

Great post by sraebaer! I'm so happy your maintenance is going so well and those irritating 5 pounds are banished.

My responses below:

I'm 3 years, 5 months post-op

Do you still weigh your food?
Yes, I still weigh some foods, and I also measure the volume (cups, half-cups, tablespoons, etc.) of some foods. What determines whether I weigh/measure foods is that (a) some foods are especially tantalizing for me, e.g., cheese, blueberries, vanilla yogurt, wine, and I really have to stay on top of how much I'm eating of those foods and (b) some foods I don't innately know how much they're "worth," e.g., the difference between a large vs. a small Honeycrisp apple. Portion creep is real. For me, it's important to continue to discipline and educate myself about how much I'm eating.

Do you eyeball your portions and hope for the best?
Yes, for some foods -- although it's not about "hoping for the best," but relying on my knowledge, based on my education.

Do you use visual aids, like sizing it up, palm of hand, deck of cards idea?
Definitely. Three ounces of chicken really is what will fit in my palm. How do I know? I weighed it.

Do you use small plates and cutlery?
Yup. Still do that, too. At home, I eat lunch and dinner on a salad plate and with a salad fork.

Just eat till you're full?
Usually, I am full when I'm done eating. Because, believe me, after 3 years and 5 months I know how many calories I can eat on average and what kinds of good-tasting foods make up that daily calorie budget and will fill me up. It ain't rocket science. Nonetheless, some days, like at Thanksgiving or Christmas or when hubby and I are on a long, luxe cruise, I do simply eat what I want. I also try not to eat insanely at those times or completely ignore the basic WLS rules, e.g., protein first, lots of fibrous veggies, etc. But that's also when the sleeve's restriction benefits are so useful. There's no way I can eat as much now as I could pre-op.

How did it work for you and were you really successful?
It's working brilliantly. A healthy lifestyle, whether someone's had WLS or not, isn't about being 100% perfect. It's about eating very nutritious foods most of the time. The rewards are that this morning I weighed 132.4 pounds. And my knees don't hurt. And I'm rested because I slept so well last night. And I'm not unhappy or stressed about my health or appearance. Doesn't suck at all!

Tips and tricks are greatly appreciated!
For the last 5 months (during Year Four) I've been trying very hard to eat 8 veggies and fruits every day and succeeding pretty well. I feel even better eating this way. It's amazing how good veggies and fruits taste and how much they do fill you up.

I still stop drinking 15" before meals and don't drink for 30" after meals. And I do eat a LOT slower than I did pre-op.

And I still try to eat most of my protein first. It really does fill me up better than eating other foods first. Nobody notices but me.

And I'm that crazy lady who still plans and tracks her daily food on My Fitness Pal.

And finally, I am not perfect. I never will be perfect. None of us is or could ever possibly be perfect. I'm just deeply committed to doing the best I can and ALWAYS getting back up on the horse when I have an off eating day.

That's all I got!

As always, great tips. I really appreciate your candor.
I will ALWAYS need to track my food. Too easy to "guestimate" on the low end. Right now, at 3 months out, my stomach is quite adept at self-regulation with ugly consequences if ignored. But, I'm learning the new signals and picking up quicker.

I have found over the years with diabetes that vegetables are sooo good. Love them roasted, and thank God for PAM! But fruit & sugar spikes are occasional issues, so going slowly there. I can do sugar free pears, etc., and love applesauce.

Still struggling more with enough protein & calories than I'm sure I will be a year out.

Thanks for the wonderful tips. You and sraebaer are my heros!

[sraebaer]

Tinman, always love hearing from you. The problem is your way may not work for everyone. Actually it worked for me for maybe the first 2 years at goal. No matter what I did, I weighed the same every single day. Now, for some odd reason, If I eat whatever I want, even in small quantities, I gain. I swear over the 2 week Christmas break I only ate maybe 2 pieces of fudge, 2 cookies, and maybe one piece of candy and gained 2 pounds. If I stop exercising, I gain. But I have been at goal for almost 4 years now (minus a pesky gain following an injury which I finally lost) so I think I have it figured out.

I am also not on a diet. We eat out a lot, and while I typically choose the healthy restaurant choice, I'll also have something like pizza or tacos sometimes. But when I'm home I pretty much stick to the protein first, then veggie, then carbs rule. I guess it's more of a lifestyle than a diet. More good food and less crap.

I weigh myself every day. Yes, that's probably nuts, but I am now a healthy, regular sized person who doesn't want to go back to the obese person I once was.

Maybe it's because you're a guy...

[AnnieG]

Tinman, always love hearing from you. The problem is your way may not work for everyone. Actually it worked for me for maybe the first 2 years at goal. No matter what I did, I weighed the same every single day. Now, for some odd reason, If I eat whatever I want, even in small quantities, I gain. I swear over the 2 week Christmas break I only ate maybe 2 pieces of fudge, 2 cookies, and maybe one piece of candy and gained 2 pounds. If I stop exercising, I gain. But I have been at goal for almost 4 years now (minus a pesky gain following an injury which I finally lost) so I think I have it figured out.

I am also not on a diet. We eat out a lot, and while I typically choose the healthy restaurant choice, I'll also have something like pizza or tacos sometimes. But when I'm home I pretty much stick to the protein first, then veggie, then carbs rule. I guess it's more of a lifestyle than a diet. More good food and less crap.

I weigh myself every day. Yes, that's probably nuts, but I am now a healthy, regular sized person who doesn't want to go back to the obese person I once was.

Maybe it's because you're a guy...

Maybe -- I have to ("have to") weigh daily. The fluctuations quit being a freak out and become normal as I see them.
My daughters, God love them all, don't even own scales. They are active, body type weight appropriate. But since you always know who your mother is, I know they are mine, lol. They have, as they are aging (33, 36, 39, 41) moving to more healthy foods, and less. It is heartening to know that sometimes people just are okay with their body.

That said, my wonderful husband weighs daily, but doesn't pay much attention up to a certain number. Then he cuts back. I am not able to do that. Ever.

But then again, I jumped on the crazy train at birth! Thanks Sraebaer!

[Dutchie]

Diet
noun
1.
the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.
"a vegetarian diet"
synoniemen: selection of food, food and drink, food, foodstuffs, provisions, edibles, fare; Meer
2.
a special course of food to which a person restricts themselves, either to lose weight or for medical reasons.
"I'm going on a diet"
synoniemen: dietary regime, dietary regimen, dietary programme, restricted diet, crash diet;

Take your pick.

I have a sleeve.
I do have other dietary requirements than non-sleeved persons.
I need to watch what goes into my mouth.
Not all the time, but, say like 90%-10%.
The 10% I still haven't touched yet.
Not because I don't want to, but because I don't feel the need to.
For that reason I don't consider my way of eating a diet.
I see a diet as something that holds me back from eating certain foods I really WANT to eat and that is not the case.
Ergo: I am not on a diet.

So... Tinman?
Do you make healthy foods choices, like proteins or otherwise?
When you say you'll eat anything, do you mean by that you never look at nutricional values?
And then take your vitamins in case of any deficiencies?
Or you you make certain choices?

I totally understand the "not over-eating" part, that should be the mantra for all of us.
Makes totally sense.
But I can "not overeat" on pizza's, and would most defenitely gain weight.
But that may be indeed the difference between men and women.
You men can handle more calories per day, and are better loosers.
That is a fact of life.

So, when you say you'll eat anything you want, whenever you wat and the way you want it, does that include all the fat you want, the sugars you want and the non-nutricional foods you want?
Every day?
Or do you, like me, not always want it and just indulge on the special occasions you do want it?

I agree with you, I am one year out and well on my way to figuring out what works for me.
I think I almost did.
And I agree, the vets I heard talk about their regain, almost alway eat too much.
But also they eat too much sugars and fat.
I've not heard one vet say that he/she regained on healthy foods, no matter the portion sizes.

And btw, I did giggle, so now you know my age range...

[tinman]

Tinman, always love hearing from you. The problem is your way may not work for everyone.

Hands down and no BS, one of the truest statements on here. I even said so in my last rant. I always try to convey that my way is just that. My way. However, my way has and does work for thousands of folks with the sleeve. I advocate trying Ann's way, Truffles' way, my way, and then combine them and try your own way.

Sraebaer, you are a long time, well respected vet of this board. You definitely have a tried and true method of losing and living with the sleeve. I would never presume to give you advice unless you asked me for it directly. Same with Ann....I have huge respect for her and her accomplishments. She came on here saying the same thing from day one that she says now. She's consistent in her beliefs and methods.

So am I.

As for the male/female thing affecting weight loss. There seems to be something to that so I'll just say that I feel lucky that I am a man....lol.


Now, on to Dutch.....

You have asked some very insightful and relevant questions. I will try to answer them as best as I can.

Do you make healthy foods choices, like proteins or otherwise?

Absolutely....every bite I put into my mouth counts for something. But, your vision of healthy may or may not line up with mine. "Healthy" to me means healthy for me. I live and breathe the 80/64. But my version of healthy eating is protein first, fats and carbs next.

When you say you'll eat anything, do you mean by that you never look at nutricional values?
And then take your vitamins in case of any deficiencies?
Or you you make certain choices?

I do not look at nutritional values because I do not eat any veggies what so ever. I determined early on that for me, veggies were a "sucker play". What does that mean? It means that veggies take up valuable sleeve space. I can get the same nutritional benefit from supplements that I get from eating the real thing. By taking a bucket full of supplements everyday, I save space for the things I consider more important. Protein, fat, carbs. My blood work comes back spot on perfect every six months so I know that for me, this is the best way.

I came up with this plan while battling the slimiest, sickest, bs stall you have ever seen. 4 months. Once I figures out how to bust the stall, I lost more in the next 4 months (140 lbs) than I did in first 6 (120 lbs). I won't bore everyone with my solution. It's all found in my previous posts. I will say this. My method allowed me to never have another stall and has helped dozens on this site to lose all of their weight without ever stalling once they got past the 3 week stall. There's no avoiding that one.

So, when you say you'll eat anything you want, whenever you wat and the way you want it, does that include all the fat you want, the sugars you want and the non-nutricional foods you want?
Every day?
Or do you, like me, not always want it and just indulge on the special occasions you do want it?

Very good question. I eat protein that also includes fat and carbs with every meal. If I have a sweet tooth, I indulge that. Do I eat sweets every day? No. But, I didn't eat them every day when I weighed 530 lbs either. But, since I am not on a diet, I do not sweat the sweets, how much of them I eat, and when I eat them. The only concession to not eating sweets that I make is fruit. I will consciously choose a piece of fruit over a candy bar or ice cream when given the chance. But, not because I feel like I should, but, because I feel like I should and I want it. If I want a candy bar and nothing else will do, then that's what I get and do not give it another thought.

To end this, I'll say this. My pendulum may have swung too far to one side over the other. I feel compelled to share my plan. I share my plan and opinions only to offer a counter balance to the same old crap that is spewed, respewed, and rerespewed on this board every day. Most of it comes from newbies who are regurgitating what a NUT said, or, what they just read on another board. Nothing wrong with that. Some good info there. But, I happen to think I have some good info too. Funny thing is, the NUT is spewing something that they know nothing about because there's about a 100% chance that they aren't sleeved so they can't possibly understand what it takes to lose weight with the sleeve.

In the end, the only way we learn is to decide to look at both sides of an issue and make an informed decision. As I always say, You have to make a plan, work that plan, own the results, and then change as necessary.

I offer alternatives to the same old same old.

I'm the yang to the board's ying

[Del1969]

I do have to agree with the Tinman here. Not to disagree with anyone else! Everyone will be different. I was sleeved on Dec 1st 2017. I went with a group of 5 others to Dr. Almanza and all of us have had somewhat different results with different methods to get us there. For us we are still figuring it all out but what I advise coming from a newbie is don't pay as much attention to what others are doing and do what your body will let it. I do think we need to keep the Water, Protein and vitamin intake up but eat things you like too. Just don't overeat! The hardest part in my short journey so far is stopping when I am full or before I am full. I want to thank each one of you guys who post your advice and experiences! We are in this together whether we do it the exact same way or not. Peace and weight loss to all!

[AnnieG]

I do have to agree with the Tinman here. Not to disagree with anyone else! Everyone will be different. I was sleeved on Dec 1st 2017. I went with a group of 5 others to Dr. Almanza and all of us have had somewhat different results with different methods to get us there. For us we are still figuring it all out but what I advise coming from a newbie is don't pay as much attention to what others are doing and do what your body will let it. I do think we need to keep the Water, Protein and vitamin intake up but eat things you like too. Just don't overeat! The hardest part in my short journey so far is stopping when I am full or before I am full. I want to thank each one of you guys who post your advice and experiences! We are in this together whether we do it the exact same way or not. Peace and weight loss to all!

Totally agree that we each have to figure out our own body's new way of communication, and being. I have multiple chronic health issues, so my situation varies some from you "normal" youngsters! However, since VGS, I've gone from 17 meds daily to 4, plus vitamins!

My new que for "full" is something I'm figuring out. I feel like I don't get enough calories or protein, but my NUT says I'm fine. All 17 blood tests were absolutely normal (a new thing for me), and my lipids/trigylcerides couldn't be better, according to my cardiologist.

It's a new journey for each of us, and the diversity of information really helps as you wend your way!

[sraebaer]

I do have to agree with the Tinman here. Not to disagree with anyone else! Everyone will be different. I was sleeved on Dec 1st 2017. I went with a group of 5 others to Dr. Almanza and all of us have had somewhat different results with different methods to get us there. For us we are still figuring it all out but what I advise coming from a newbie is don't pay as much attention to what others are doing and do what your body will let it. I do think we need to keep the Water, Protein and vitamin intake up but eat things you like too. Just don't overeat! The hardest part in my short journey so far is stopping when I am full or before I am full. I want to thank each one of you guys who post your advice and experiences! We are in this together whether we do it the exact same way or not. Peace and weight loss to all!

You were sleeved a month ago, so I'm not sure how you will know what works for you yet. Basically the losing part is really easy, the weight just falls off. You could probably eat cookies and still lose weight. (Not recommending that!) When it comes to maintanance things will change. For me losing was a breeze, maintaining not as breezy, but doable.

[Del1969]

You were sleeved a month ago, so I'm not sure how you will know what works for you yet. I only know what has worked so far for me. As I stated it has only been a month. When it has been longer I can talk about that. At the time of maintaining I will continue as I do now and try different things until I find what works for me. It may not work for anyone else but it will be tailored for me. I hope we all stay happy on the journey.

[Dutchie]

Thanks Tinman!
Your way makes total sense to me.
Parts of it I already implement, other things not.
To each her own.

I am still working things out.
I notice, that I don't feel secure sometimes, in how to do things.
But that will change with experience, I guess.
After all, I still have a couple of months to go.
And making a "mistake" won't kill me.
I have plenty o froom to work around in.

For now, I use MFP, I weigh food and I weigh myself daily.
But I don't do "light" foods, everything I eat from mayo to cheese are full fat.
I don't eat enough to gain from that small amount of fat.
And of course, I am part of forums like this.
I use small plates, because my portions will either get lonely or I need a navigation device to fing them...
I use small cutlery, because I still take bites, that are to big, maybe I will learn that in time...

But who is to say, what will happen later?
We'll see.
This is an adventure.
I love it!

btw Annie? I am one of those persons, who don't know who their mother is...
I've never known my birth mother.
It doesn't bother me, except when I was pregnant and had no idea what diseases ran in my family.
And maybe right now in this proces, because I have no idea about any predisposition (is that the right word?).