What we eat drives our success

[Ann2]

MaggyF ...

Once again, I wish you the best in all of your WLS and health endeavors. Once again, I believe that everyone should do what THEY think will help them in their own individual, unique journey toward health and weight loss and maintenance. Once again, I don't think that everyone's body reacts the same to specific foods and that everyone has to find what works best for them.

You have taken offense where no offense was offered. If you review this thread later I hope you'll also see that those who responded here generally did NOT suggest that you are wrong in your approach or disrespect your right to choose your own path to meet your own needs.

What most people have said is that your way is not the way for them. Please also acknowledge, if only to yourself, that your initial post suggested that the "moderation" path (even in maintenance) leads to WLS perdition for the majority of patients.

There is no single path that we all have to take. We each choose our own path based on our needs, the counsel we received, and our abilities.

[kenson]

As with anything MaggyF, you have to do what works best for you. You have found it and I am happy for you. I have been a member of this forum for three years and this place welcomed me when I was just beginning my journey. You have support here, but there are also differing opinions. That's what I have found about the entire VSG community, each center, bariatric surgeon, nutrition, etc., tells you something different. There is no one stop shopping, we all have to do and follow the diet that works for us.

[itsmytime]

Although there is some truth to your statement, it can't be all or nothing. It's unhealthy to think that way and can cause serious problems later down the line. I'm over 4 years post op and I maintain by following an 80/20 lifestyle which means 80% weight loss surgery rules and 20% I eat something non bariatric friendly in moderation. The first 2 years I ate 95% wls rules and 5% moderation to maximize weight loss. I'm still maintaining under my goal weight. i do think that people who eat unhealthy food day in and day out "in moderation" are most likely going to be quite unsuccessful in 5 years after their surgery. I think mostly following the rules is vital to long-term success. But the all or nothing mentality is just not healthy for a lifetime and it's not sustainable for most.

[Munecagirl85]

Most all centers make this the main diet for us sleevers, my surgery was in mexico and all he said was dont drink to much milkshakes!!! Yes that was all!!! I learned wverything from here or research or my friends who had theres and none did a spit of exercise or diet period! And i mean they still maintain the 150lb loss eat whatever they want just in such a low low amount! I didnt even do a pre op diet! (Mexico for ya) ive been losing since surgery stade 3 and a half pounds a week and i try my best to healthy no more fast foods like before 3 times a day portien shakes in the am no more biscuits in the am ...yet i eat what i like maybe if k followed this diet above id lose so much faster... , but i cant if i could be that strict i would have never had this surgery and it has been a lifesend for me bc i have control now i eat one mini cookie if its a perty and sastifeid and wont dream about the whole box! One step at a time maybe one dAy ill get there! Lol

[Munecagirl85]

Thank you! You just made me cry! FINALLY, someone who understands what I was trying to say AND knows what I'm talking about first hand. THANK YOU for your post!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

It probably seems like people are beimg rude here inget that. They really are not we need your insite ss w anyone hope,you wont leave :$

[neptunesally]

Maggie is right! Simple sugars and complex carbs are considered addicting. (White flour and sugar) If you've ever been to a Overeatters annoumous meeting they discuss this. Just like alcohol is addicting to an alcoholic. white flour and sugar can be just as addicting to an over eater.

What ever works for you Maggie go gor it! Its obviously w9rking for you. I appreciate you opening up my eyes as I am one of those who needs to consider going this route as I find I feel better and lose weight when I stick too low or no carbs and no SUGAR. Otherwise I'm grazing or as you mention an addict wanting just those foods. I learned alot attending OA meetings. I truly hope you stick it out here.

Your post really hit home for me so thank you! I needed this.

[MaggyF]

Maggie is right! Simple sugars and complex carbs are considered addicting. (White flour and sugar) If you've ever been to a Overeatters annoumous meeting they discuss this. Just like alcohol is addicting to an alcoholic. white flour and sugar can be just as addicting to an over eater.

What ever works for you Maggie go gor it! Its obviously w9rking for you. I appreciate you opening up my eyes as I am one of those who needs to consider going this route as I find I feel better and lose weight when I stick too low or no carbs and no SUGAR. Otherwise I'm grazing or as you mention an addict wanting just those foods. I learned alot attending OA meetings. I truly hope you stick it out here.

Your post really hit home for me so thank you! I needed this.

Thank you so much. You are the kind of person I was hoping to help. Being physically addicted to a type of food is hard for others who don't experience it to understand. They understand psychological addiction, as overeaters, but not the physical addiction associated with true carb/sugar addiction and how it effects the body's metabolic reaction to food. Tina, the first few weeks are very, very difficult. You will get through it, but it's hard! Afterward, though, the rewards are SO worth it. I just got tested again for insulin intolerance, and with each test, my pancreas, liver, kidneys and heart are working more as they should be. My doctor says this isn't because of surgery but completely related to my not eating starches and processed sugar. Just like an alcoholic must avoid alcohol, I face the reality that I have to forever avoid the things I'm physically addicted to. I am SO grateful that you understand where I was coming from and I hope I could be of some help to you. Feel free to message me privately.

[Lee6Lee]

I DID NOT WRITE THE BELOW POST. SOMEHOW MY AVATAR, ETC. HAS APPEARED WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S RESPONSE.

MaggyF, everyone has benefited from your postings. Firstly, by bringing attention to the reality of addiction. And, secondly, by bringing attention to how we can come across here. We need you for these reasons. Please don't go away. How about starting a specialty group on the forum...if there isn't already one. Please don't go away.

[Lee6Lee]

I DID NOT WRITE THE BELOW POST......


QUOTE=RehabNurse;540769]In the weight loss surgery world, there are two types of people: 'moderators' and 'abstainers.'

The moderators choose to moderate their intake of so-called forbidden foods and drinks, whereas the abstainers have opted to totally abstain from these food items that have been labeled off-limits.

A sleeve is a tool to a healthier, more normal life. Total abstinence from certain food items is not one of the hallmarks of a normal life.[/QUOTE]

Ann2 brought to our attention, many months ago, the importance of complex carbs in our diets. There's a disease you can get from complete abstinence of these complex carbs. Maybe she can fill you in. These complex carbs are not cake, potatoes, crackers and white bread carbs. We're talking about whole grain. Not whole grain cold cereal. If it's been altered, it's not whole grain. They fool you with wording! To consume a bit of REAL complex carbs regularly, I make my own high protein bread. I actually grind my own wheat. But with the whole wheat I add: soy protein powder, ground quinoa, ground flax seed, ground amaranth, ground bean flour (I get all the grains and beans and grind them), a small amount of white flour as binder. Then salt, yeast, bit of oil, etc.

BUT TO ORIGINAL POSTER....I get it. I really do. Sometimes I think I should cold turkey it all. But I know it won't work for me. I'm learning how to be normal for me. My husband always says, "what's normal?" Oh, well. But he's referring to mental normal. That's a different subject!

[MaggyF]

Ann2 brought to our attention, many months ago, the importance of complex carbs in our diets. There's a disease you can get from complete abstinence of these complex carbs.

Thanks for your post. I know about the importance of having some complex carbs in our diets, but that's an excellent reminder! You can get them, though from beans and lentils, so I make sure to have those twice a week. The good thing about beans is that they are also a protein, so when I eat them, I don't get slammed with an insulin reaction like I would if I ate the other complex carbs. Your bread sounds wonderful. I sure wish I could tolerate that, as I miss bread, but alas, I can't. Thanks so much for your positive post!

[MaggyF]

MaggyF, everyone has benefited from your postings. Firstly, by bringing attention to the reality of addiction. And, secondly, by bringing attention to how we can come across here. We need you for these reasons. Please don't go away. How about starting a specialty group on the forum...if there isn't already one. Please don't go away.

Thank you once again, Lee. I've done a lot of thinking about what happened here, and I know most of those who posted responses didn't mean to be mean spirited but were defending their ways of life. Had I been in their shoes, I might have done the same thing. That said, some were mean spirited, claiming I was trying to get attention because of some psychological problem, vilifying me as someone who would scare people away. I've been a member of forums since the early 90s and have been a forum leader for a couple of popular forums, but I've never seen anything like what I experienced here. I may come back, but right now, because of the general close mindedness, unwillingness to accept that some people aren't like all people, and the personal "needs attention because of a psychological problem" attack from those acting as forum experts/leaders, I'll stay away for now. I'm only here, now, because of your sweet posts...because I wanted to thank you for your kindness and humanity.

[Lee6Lee]

I DID NOT WRITE THE BELOW POST. SOMEHOW MY AVATAR, ETC. WAS MIXED UP WITH SOMEONE ELSE.

Thank you once again, Lee. I've done a lot of thinking about what happened here, and I know most of those who posted responses didn't mean to be mean spirited but were defending their ways of life. Had I been in their shoes, I might have done the same thing. That said, some were mean spirited, claiming I was trying to get attention because of some psychological problem, vilifying me as someone who would scare people away. I've been a member of forums since the early 90s and have been a forum leader for a couple of popular forums, but I've never seen anything like what I experienced here. I may come back, but right now, because of the general close mindedness, unwillingness to accept that some people aren't like all people, and the personal "needs attention because of a psychological problem" attack from those acting as forum experts/leaders, I'll stay away for now. I'm only here, now, because of your sweet posts...because I wanted to thank you for your kindness and humanity.

MaggyF, thank you for your kind words.
You can block getting responses from people who are annoying or have a tendency to rattle their sabres. I have never done it, but there is a feature somewhere in the settings. Problem solved. We love hearing from you. We are all at various stages and think we know exactly how it's done....for us. And even that changes as time goes by.

[MaggyF]

Almost two years ago I started this thread by saying what we eat drives our success. The responses were a bit shocking to me and, frankly, drove me from using this forum for support. I was told I was completely wrong, that I didn't know what I was talking about, that the ketogenic diet I was on was not sustainable...some posters insulted me, acted like I was an idiot. It was a real turn off, and I told myself that I would come back one more time at least a year and a half later to update you on how I'm doing.

I've been on the ketogenic diet (which is no sugar, no starches, high fat, moderate protein) now for two years and two months. I've never cheated, because I have no physical or emotional desire to cheat. Once I broke myself of my carb addition after the first two weeks without starches and sugars, I never craved that crap again. So, check off number one that it's not sustainable. I'm in a wonderful support group with over 6,000 other people who've been on the keto diet long term and all of us have had similar results, and we sustain just fine.

Now, let me update you on the wonderful health benefits! First of all, I have the highest percentage of body fat lost of anyone who's ever been treated at the bariatric clinic I go to. Not only did they recently write me up for their website, they are updating their methods to increase the amount of fat they tell their patients to eat (they were already telling us not to eat sugar and starches and, of course to eat LOTS of protein), because I've had such great success.

I went from 385 to 152 (13 lbs below my goal) and that includes about 20-25 lbs of excess skin, and from a 69 BMI to a 24 BMI (normal). All signs of congestive heart failure have gone, my diabetes is in complete remission (no medication needed), my arthritis pain went from a 10 to a 0 or a 1, my resting heart rate went from 75 to around 50, my blood pressure went from 190 over 100 to 110 over 55, my blood work is perfect, my adult acne is gone, my anxiety is gone, and I run five miles a day where I walked with a walker before. So much for unhealthy.

Recently a large, long term study came out that provided copious evidence that the keto diet is, in fact, the healthiest diet (though they don't name it in the study; they call it "low carb, high fat, moderate protein" which is the same thing (often just called LCHF) and it extends the human life span when compared with low fat diets or high carb diets. Again...so much for unhealthy.

In short, I stand by what I said, and the evidence (both my own and research) backs me up. I have lots of friends I've gone to support group with for two years now, and the ones who still drink girly alcoholic drinks, eat mashed potatoes, crackers, bread, pasta, rice, etc. have lost a mere 30 to 50 lbs in the same period I've lost 232, even though we started at about the same size. One of them came to me six months ago and asked for my help. I taught her the ropes and since then, she's lost 78 more lbs.

So yes, we ARE what we eat. You continue to eat crap, you'll just get fat again. I choose not to. I feel better than I have my entire life! Is this post too rough? Shouldn't be, but those of you who desperately want to hold on to your sugar and carbs will argue with me rather than just googling it and reading TONS of research yourself. Will it help some of you? I sure hope so. That was my original goal, slapped down by the posters who consider themselves forum leaders, and it's still my goal, to help you get what you really want. Am I going to get pissy and fight back when you insult me again? Nope, because I consider this group counterproductive to the goals of weight loss, and I'll never come back. I just hope the truth I've told will knock some of you who've had little success or who've regained their weight back to reality. You can NOT go back to eating carby surgary crap and expect to stay thin. Most of you won't stay thin if you do that, because 99% of severely obese people have metabolic syndrome, and the only way to truly combat that is to not eat starches and sugar.

And just so you know...I eat things like cheesecake, pizza, chocolate mug cake, cinnamon rolls, fried chicken, crackers...but they use amazing recipes that have been innovatively created by my keto group. None of them contain starches or sugar, but contain protein and fat instead, and all of them are delicious! I've never ONCE felt deprived eating this way I was told by you all was so unsustainable. I hope that next time someone has the courage to tell it like it is that you won't do to him or her what you did to me and actually try to listen and learn something. The results don't lie, and I'm loving life and what I eat every day!

Good luck to you. I wish you all great success. And now, I'm out! Time to go for my daily run! (The endorphins are better than french fries!)

[Ann2]

It's good to hear your physical health has improved so much.

Congratulations.

Thanks for coming back to report on your success with your LCHF regimen.

Continued best wishes.

[Dutchie]

Wow...
I'm a bit flabbergasted...
First of all, thank you for your opinion MaggyF.
Second of all, thanks to everybody else for their opinions.
It has been interesting reading.

I know people who do keto.
I also know people who don't.
I know people, who will eat anything, in moderation.
And I know people, who'll eat anything in huge quantities...

You guess, who gained weight after the operation...
Only one of the above.

I am now in maintenance.
I did eat low carb, to loose the weight.
I am introducing complex carbs in my diet now, in the form of veggies, fruit and whole grains.

I have not eaten sugar, but I don't particularly like sweet things.
I feel like I am doing really well.
And I feel amazing.
All my pre op medical issues are gone and I don't expect them to return any time soon.
Will I never eat a cookie or cake again?
I don't know, but I expect at some point I will take that bite and enjoy it.

Sugar is the new cocaine.
I agree.
For some people it's poison.
They shouldn't eat it ever again.

I am glad MaggyF is doing great!
Keep up the good work!

But, having said that, I think we all do great.
We are concious of our diets, and are making the best choices for US.
And that's what I think, is the most important.
We can all hold only ourselves accountable.

What I don't like is the attitude of posting an opinion, and then feel offended when other people post their own opinion.
And threaten to leave here, because not everybody has your opinion.
Why feel upset with other peoples opinion in the first place?
I didn't feel offended by the first post and I really don't think anybody did.
I do appreciate your message, but I certainly do not appreciate the tone that it was given in.

But what I do know is that diets come and go.
I also was your age a couple of years ago, so I've seen and done a lot of those diets.
But what I learned, is that not one diet suits all.

I wish you all the best.