Why is it men know exactly their size, and women never do. I (almost) always wear size 8 and smalls in everything. Bought a pair of hiking pants, Kuhl brand (with the two dots over the U), in a TWELVE. All I can figure is they are made in another country with a different sizing. I told the REI lady I was just going to cut out that 12 so I don't have to look at it and she said "good idea." I haven't had a 12 in my closet in 5 years. Full disclosure, I did have to buy a little loose so there would be room for my expedition weight long underwear.
Oh well, they are super cute pants and really tough for climbing in rocky areas.
Then the next day I got a pair of size 8 hiking shorts at Eddie Bauer. Go figure.